Raw Food Diet Cause Diarrhea
New doggie has been on a raw diet for several weeks, chicken carcases and veg. I have had him 2 weeks now and have given him commercial raw diet as well as the chicken etc. He has really runny poo and I don't know what to give him, unless its boiled rice? Obviously needs more fibre, but what ? Should I stop the commercial Natures Diet . Never fed raw before so in the dark, advice gratefully received!
Give raw chicken breast. Bio natural yoghurt is good, maybe a raw egg, which often helps.
Has he had diarrhoea all this time? Chicken is one of the top allergy proteins-sorry! I would stick to absolutely no treats, pure chicken only. What exactly was he eating before you got him? I can't remember, is he a pup?
No he is about 4, he was on raw chicken breast when I got him, but I have bought the Natures diet raw frozen stuff as an alternative and for when I cant get hold of the chicken carcasses. Its a chicken one, also tried a lamb one. When I got him he had been on the chicken and he was a bit constipated,his poo was like bricks !
Really actually would like to change him on to tinned as would be much easier, but slightly concerned that any deviation from the chicken carcasses would cause problems now. Cant always get the raw chicken
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I switched my pup to raw food not long ago, and read a brilliant book called Honey's Natural Feeding Handbook for Dogs which gave loads of really useful information.
On a raw diet they need to be eating a certain amount of bone (raw only) which firms up the stool. I think it's meant to be 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% offal roughly - if the stool is loose, increase bone. You can get bones from the butchers, not just chicken carcasses but marrow bones, fairly easily. I feed chicken wings from the butchers or supermarket as a treat/distraction when we're going out. I wouldn't say increase fibre, as this will surely make the stool more loose? If you give offal, be aware that liver will make the stool looser, so moderation is required. I think other offal is fine to feed up to 10%.
Note, a dog fed on raw should have firm/hard stools. They will be noticeably different to a dog fed tinned/dry food. Our used to produce loads of poo, sometime runny, always very smelly. Now on raw - they are small, hard and don't smell. They SHOULD be hard, as this stimulates the anal glands as the poop passes through, ensuring that the glands don't get clogged up (a very common problem).
There is also a really useful group on Facebook, are you on Facebook? I will find out the name of the group if so, so you can join it and access all the advice on there 
Of course, he may well have been put on a raw diet for a reason - e.g. allergies to things found in processed tinned/dried food, so just be careful about switching him back - but this has to be balanced to suit your lifestyle.
Hope he gets better soon, not pleasant for either him or you!
In fact I just re-read your post - chicken carcasses and veg? I can pretty much guarantee it will be the veg giving him the squits! Cut that down big time. Mine gets carrots to clean his teeth, and the occasional bit of parsnip, green veg etc but not loads and not with every meal.
I'd recommend getting in touch with Honeys Raw Food, they were so helpful and gave me loads of advice. I have bought from them and from Raw 2 Go so far - and have heard that Manifold Valley Meats are good too. But Honeys deffo a good starting point as they are happy to give free advice!
ETA: google "the dogs dinner, ann ridyard" - I don't think I'm allowed to link to external websites? don't want to risk it anyway, it comes up in google easily enough! there is a website and there are even poopy pics to give you an idea what a raw fed dog's poop should look like (!) and plenty of advice on what to feed/weights and ratios.
Hope this helps
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Pumpkin seeds helps firm them up, as well as raw bones, try lamb ribs and spine. I avoid any weight bearing bones as they do tend to splinter in to sharper pieces which mine do pass ok but I prefer not to give them weight bearers incase of probs
If you are going to continue feeding raw he will need a more varied diet than chicken carcasses and veg. Ideally, he should have multiple protein sources, an element of offal and fish oil. Chicken carcasses are primarily cartilaginous; you need to introduce bone to his diet to firm him up. Rib bones, lamb carcasses etc etc.
If he was good on the raw diet he had when he came to you, I would keep him on that and ditch the commercial variant.
How much does he weigh?
How much is he being fed each day?
Is he too fat too thin or about right?
Be careful my friends dog got salmonella on a raw diet .
Sorry I meant less fibre not more ! Have been hesitant about giving more substantial bone because his teeth are so worn and non existent in the front.
He is about right weightwise I think , just under 27Kgm I can just feel his ribs.
I think perhaps I have been giving too much veg. he has a bit of broccoli or carrot or cauli most days.
I have a yardful of runny poo to clear up now that necessitated him getting up 3 times in the night
Thanks for your input everyone. Where do I get pumpkin seeds though ?
Sorry I meant less fibre not more ! Have been hesitant about giving more substantial bone because his teeth are so worn and non existent in the front.
He is about right weightwise I think , just under 27Kgm I can just feel his ribs.
I think perhaps I have been giving too much veg. he has a bit of broccoli or carrot or cauli most days.
I have a yardful of runny poo to clear up now that necessitated him getting up 3 times in the night
Thanks for your input everyone. Where do I get pumpkin seeds though ?
Health shop and some supermarkets are now selling them
Be careful my friends dog got salmonella on a raw diet .
Dogs guts are designed to cope with bacteria that would kill us. Their intestines are shorter, allowing a quick transit through and out the back door before salmonella have a chance to get hold,they can and do eat the most disgusting things with no ill effects. When too much fibre or even worse (any grains as in biscuits/filler) are added it slows the transition down as the dog's digestive tract tries to digest it, this allows bacteria normally expelled quickly to stay in the guts longer and increases the chance of the dog getting salmonella. I sometimes give the greens/fibre to my dogs after the main meat meal, the meat will go on ahead whilst the fibre plods along after it and doesn't cause any problems. Avoid grains and avoid adding too much fibre at any one time and things should work themselves out. I have been feeding 3 dogs on a raw balanced diet for over 10 years and not once have any of them had salmonella, they are perfectly healthy.
MY lurcher buried a large fish head (raw) in the garden in the summer heat a couple of years ago, then dug it up a week later and ate it, if she didn't get salmonella from that then I don't know what would give it to her!
For 27kg dog you would be looking at. 675gms in total per day (this includes treats etc). Raw feeding rule of thumb is feed 2 -3% of body weight. The frozen blocks of meat are supposed to have about 4gms bone per 100gms I think. Certainly enough to make my boys poos solid. (He likes the blocks cooked but will eat the 'free flow' mince raw)
You really need to completely overhaul your dogs diet. If you want to feed raw diy, then as another poster said it's 80/10/10
Not an exact science as one of mine needs twice as much offal as the other
They have minces, lamb, beef, chicken, duck, rabbit, venison etc
They have bones, chicken wings, carcasses, duck wings, prey ie: whole rabbits
They have fish. Whole fish which I freeze for 2 weeks. They love most fish
Chicken feet are fab for glucosamine
Tinned sardines in olive oil
And very occasionally some veg or fruit. They do enjoy blueberries
They also have heart, kidney, liver
It's a very varied diet which is what they need
I use TPMS, daf and paleo ridge raw for my dogs food
I also pick up stuff in morrisons
Rawfeeding rebels and barf are good fb groups.
personally I would take him off everything other than the commercially pre-formed RAW, which will be balanced and see how he gets on.
Morrisons 'meaty beef bones' are a big favourite in our house naturally they get buried first then eaten once covered in muck!
I am going to get pumpkin seeds and try them, How much should I give him and how often ?? Thanks !
Re pumpkin seeds, try half a tablespoon split over two meals, maybe. Raw eggs, including shell are useful as a binder. You need to research raw properly, find out what he was fed before. Natural Instinct is fab, but if he's reacting poorly to it, then you might need to tailor what he gets.
Front teeth are not the issue, back teeth are used for chewing bones. What are they like?
I have looked at pumpkin on the net and it is used for both constipation and diarrhoea, how does that work ?
Dogs guts are designed to cope with bacteria that would kill us. Their intestines are shorter, allowing a quick transit through and out the back door before salmonella have a chance to get hold,they can and do eat the most disgusting things with no ill effects. When too much fibre or even worse (any grains as in biscuits/filler) are added it slows the transition down as the dog's digestive tract tries to digest it, this allows bacteria normally expelled quickly to stay in the guts longer and increases the chance of the dog getting salmonella. I sometimes give the greens/fibre to my dogs after the main meat meal, the meat will go on ahead whilst the fibre plods along after it and doesn't cause any problems. Avoid grains and avoid adding too much fibre at any one time and things should work themselves out. I have been feeding 3 dogs on a raw balanced diet for over 10 years and not once have any of them had salmonella, they are perfectly healthy.
MY lurcher buried a large fish head (raw) in the garden in the summer heat a couple of years ago, then dug it up a week later and ate it, if she didn't get salmonella from that then I don't know what would give it to her!
Non of that changes the fact that my friends dog nearly died of salmonella and ended up being fed through a tube in the throat before pulling through .
Salmonella is an extremely rare complaint with raw feeding. Nobody goes into feeding raw with their eyes closed (or at least I hope not). I don't think one case of salmonella is a reason to not feed raw, personally. It is admittedly very serious, but feeding dry food can also have serious consequences so best not to write something off completely because of a few isolated cases
Anyway, OP, how is your dog now? Have his stools firmed up?
Are you aware that samonellosis is zoonotic?so can be passed to humans.and that infected dogs can show no clinical signs but can become carriers and shed the bacteria in the poo. It can also be very severe illness and is occasionaly fatal.the point im trying to make is not something to dismiss lightly.
Campylobactor and salmonella infection are known risks in feeding raw meat to any animal. It is unfortunatly not my experience that people are aware of this when they start on a raw diet. Quite the opposite in fact in the majority of cases that I have discussed it with owners they were not aware it was a risk or hadnt considered it. In some cases they informed me that Dogs cannot catch these disease's because their systems are designed to prevent it. Thats not what they taught us in vet school.quite the opposite in fact but a very popular myth. Dogs are less susceptible to these infections then humans,thats true...but they can and do pick up these infections if the load is high enough and the conditions are right...the same as any other bacterial infection and generally raw chicken is the cause. The level of dangerous bacteria found on the skin of human grade commerical chicken in the supermarket shelves has made the papers on more than one occasion. The bacteria are there and they are a risk, to try and claim otherwise because you have not personally been affected or heard of many cases is misleading. Personally I have never contracted salmonella despite exposure to it..but that doesnt mean I think I cannot. The constant claims that I read on raw threads where these infections are dismissed as insignificant is a worry.
lncidentally chronic diarrhoea that doesnt clear up on a change of diet can be campylobacter infection.worth considering if the pumpkin or other bulking agent doesnt work op.but hopefully its just because you arent feeding enough bone or offal.
Ponyparty, well they did seem to be getting better but last night I was up 3 times with him .Its not diarrhoea like water but very soft runny poo.(bit like chocolate ice cream, (sorry tmi !)
I cant believe the amount ?I thought raw diets only produced a small amount comparatively. I have just got the pumpkin seeds so will give them today,also have contacted Honeys dog foods as someone upthread recommended. They have given me a free download of their booklet which is very interesting. They also mention stress might be a factor, as I have only had him a few weeks. He doesn't seem the stressy type, rather the opposite and has settled into a routine quickly, and had already changed homes down to the foster lady,but don't know what I can do about that other than hope he will be less so as time goes on.
Giardia? Worth taking a faecal sample to the vet for testing.
Thanks Aru, yes I am aware of all of the above. I researched A LOT before attempting a raw food diet, and in doing so found a terrifying level of pseudo-science on some raw feeding forums, including lots of advice about homeopathic remedies... Eek! I do know there are risks associated (not just salmonella etc but also the small risk of him choking on bone fragments or them causing a blockage) but it seems, so far, to really agree with my (extremely fussy) dog. If I saw any signs of bacterial infection I would be straight down to the vets with him. But so far so good, his coat is shiny, the dryness of his skin has reduced (vet could find no underlying cause and when I mentioned I was thinking of switching to raw they said it "may" have a positive effect) and the consistency of his poos much better than when on dry food.
Anyway, I was waiting for OP to reply about the condition of her dog - if he does still have diarrhoea, I'd recommend that she take him to see a vet, as I would be concerned that it has persisted for so long. Good call re: the campylobacter, if he's been on almost exclusively raw chicken then that's certainly a risk. I wouldn't have known that chronic diarrhoea was a symptom of campylobacter, so thanks Aru.
Ponyparty, well they did seem to be getting better but last night I was up 3 times with him .Its not diarrhoea like water but very soft runny poo.(bit like chocolate ice cream, (sorry tmi !)
I cant believe the amount ?I thought raw diets only produced a small amount comparatively. I have just got the pumpkin seeds so will give them today,also have contacted Honeys dog foods as someone upthread recommended. They have given me a free download of their booklet which is very interesting. They also mention stress might be a factor, as I have only had him a few weeks. He doesn't seem the stressy type, rather the opposite and has settled into a routine quickly, and had already changed homes down to the foster lady,but don't know what I can do about that other than hope he will be less so as time goes on.
Oh you replied while I was typing!
Sorry to hear he's not really any better - might have to be a trip to the vets. Is he bright and behaving normally in himself? Appetite and thirst levels normal, everything else seems normal? Hard to tell as you haven't had him long I suppose.
Try diet again after reading the Honey's book but I'd be worried it's not clearing up by now tbh.
Hope he gets better soon!
Looking at info on pumpkin seeds it says not to feed raw, are the Holland and Barret ones raw? One site says they contain cyanide !
If no improvement tomorrow it looks like a trip to the vet! Although seems absolutely fine and dandy otherwise. He does drink a lot of water when weve been for our walks so don't know if that makes things worse. I really don't feel happy about the raw diet I must saw, always given our dogs canned and table scraps before and never had a problem. Its mainly he's come from the foster home on that diet and they are quite insistent that he stays on it. Well we will soldier on. just another of life's little hiccups. strange thing is on the other hand the dog with pancreatitis that has being sicky/not eating days even on his special diet has not been ill at all since new dog came.(Ive probably put the mockers on that now )
Also wondering about bones as only one butcher in town,who has a lot of regulars for his bones etc, rest is supermarket and they don't do their own butchering do they?
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Morrisons (I am told) sell trays of 'stock' bones - could be worth investigating if you have one near. Otherwise you can buy off the internet.
If you are thinking of going to the vet, my advice would be to start collecting faecal samples tonight, and then add tomorrow (and ideally on day 3) as not all parasites shed on a regular basis.
Re the pumpkin seeds, have never had a problem feeding organic/raw seeds, but I always follow up with a ripe stilton to replace the natural bacteria in the gut.
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Morrisson's do pig trotters, lamb and beef bones for stock. Even my 'machine' can't cope with the beef bones. Remember to keeper weight bearing bones, they may crack teeth.
List of raw suppliers:
http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/raw-food-supplier-list.197702/
Giardia? Worth taking a faecal sample to the vet for testing.
This, Defo.
Thank you all for all the information, you are a brainy lot! I have been having a good old read up on the" sticky "post. Got raw food lag now!
ETA the opinion here is 10/10/80 ratio, Honeyfood firm in above posts says 1/3rd 1/3rd 1/3rd !
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Source: https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/diarrhoea-on-raw-diet.726166/
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